Trust a P365 with your life. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Fair enough. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. I have no idea. Third, Glock has had problems, too. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. congrats. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Dont care for them, not my jam. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. BAM. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Zero in the affirmative. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. LOL! DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Give me a break. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. The new Kirk does suck. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. I also have a manual safety. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. Thats SIGs term for a recall. Companies stay silent Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Time will tell if no. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? in Capitalvania. It did not originally have this. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Sound familiar? abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Look a fanboy. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Fine. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Search Texas Statutes. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Its a novelty, its got issues! 3. 2. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. I still own them all. He was told to shoot two rounds. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. And thats just my opinion. Weird how that might happen. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. But that's not working in the P320, he said. There was no holster involved. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Wheee!!. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? is the manual safety a kit you add? If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. ALL OF THEM. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. The P320 pistol is a dog. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. He probably had a double until it was over. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Grow up, you aint all that! . who sells them? Legal Penalties. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. (unless theyre SWAT or something). Period. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. A fine of up to $10,000. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. Dude, your story is THREE years old. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. There were a lot of changes. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. They admitted their problem and fixed it. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Because its flat out bull**it. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). I sold that pistol when I got it back. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Ron, On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Wont last!. The new guy sucks. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself.
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